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In conversation with Kirstie Donnelly MBE (CEO, City & Guilds)

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Key discussion points


Kirstie Donnelly is CEO of the City & Guilds Institute, a charitable foundation which not only provides highly valued qualifications but is a thought-leader in professional and vocational education. She has worked for several decades in the post-16 sector in several high-profile roles. She was interviewed online by Andy Forbes on 16th January, and the following is a summary of what she said.


  • In the late 1990s I was on the committee that helped produce David Blunkett’s Green Paper “The Learning Age”. At the time it was an avant-garde idea – connecting businesses, schools, and colleges to create a lifelong learning system. It was incredibly forward-thinking and much of it still holds true today.

  • I’ve often said: “Talent exists everywhere, unfortunately opportunities do not”. Skills change lives, so how do we get opportunity to as many people as possible?

  • We need a broad cross-party consensus to achieve a system that is consistent and does not change every time a government does.

  • We need a broad-brush approach from government to give us the freedom to find more innovative methods within a faster, more agile, and responsive system that will deliver skills to people in the way and at the time they need them.

  • It’s very welcome that the government is listening to the evidence and recognising not only the importance of skills, but also the causal link between skills and productivity.

  • The current lack of detail around the Growth and Skills levy has raised concerns that younger people may not get their share of apprenticeship opportunities. However, the proposed Foundation Apprenticeships will exist for the purpose of encouraging employers to take on younger apprentices who need different support. Flexibility to adapt the levy according to age group or cohort remains one of our key asks from the Government.

  • There is a need to join up all the different bodies and link them to the new industrial strategy, but with enough freedom at the local level for flexible funding. We also need to make sure opportunities are there even for the most hard-hit communities that have missed out for far too long.

  • Execution is key; what we need is freeing up the system by government stepping back and letting the experts in the sector have some freedom; trusting them and allowing for autonomy is the right way to drive the system forward.

  • It’s soon going to be Productivity Week and the report we did with you – “Making Skills Work” - is full of recommendations on solving the productivity crisis. I’d highlight the one that says Skills England should engage with the broadest possible coalition of government, business, education providers, learners, workers and local communities. Also, that it directs its resources by properly evaluating the impact and effectiveness of interventions.

  • At City & Guilds we say: Skills lead to jobs, which leads to productivity, which leads to wealth, which then leads to growth for everyone. They are all interconnected. There is a causal link, which is backed up by the annual City & Guilds impact reports that showcase the way our programmes help people get into work, stay in work, and develop themselves. In short, become productive!

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